My soda machine is not cooling, diagnose bad compressor.

Hi,
I will assume that you have checked to see if the machine is plugged in, that the outlet has power(circuit breaker not thrown) and that the compressor is plugged into the machine. I will also assume that are not running it off of a very long extension cord.
There are several other things that could cause the sodas not to get cold:
1. The evaporator could be froze up. Get down on your hands and knees and look under the vend chute, if the evaporator is solid ice the sodas won't get cold. Unplug machine and wait several hours until it melts.(do not try to chip away ice you will damage the evaporator). When it is completely melted plug it back in. If it freezes up again you check for these things:
A. Door or flap door seal leaks, the door needs to seal air tight and the flap door needs seal good. Check for a bent door or missing rubber seal. Also check for some gunk build up on the flap door/seal.
B. Low on Freon charge, a refrigerator repairman can diagnose this and if needed can add Freon, but depending on cost it might be cheaper to buy a used compressor ($150-$200).
2. There is an upper fan that blows the air through the evaporator make sure it is working (running). If not make sure it's wires are connected and getting power. If it's getting power and still not working replace it. (this can also make your evaporator ice up)
3. Check your thermostat to see if it is working. Find your thermostat - on a Dixie-Narco it is in front on right(see picture left below, white knob). On a Vendo it is under the vend chute back by the evaporator and is turned with a slotted screwdriver. Check to make sure the thermostat wires didn't become disconected. If they are reconnect them. If that's not the problem, then check it by turning it all the way to off, then slowly turn it back up at some point you should hear the thermostat 'click' and compressor turn on. If the thermostat doesn't make a click sound it is probably bad. If it makes the click sound but the compressor doesn't turn on then the compressor is [u]possibly[/u] bad.
3a. The compressors have a thermal cut out switch and won't run if they are getting hot because of the compressor cooling fan (the fan by the compressor) not running. This can be caused by trash jamming it or blocking the air intake. Clean out trash, let compressor cool and repeat step 3. If the compressor turns on but the fan won't run replace fan motor. If the fan runs, there is no trash and the compressor will not run then you are probably going to need a new or rebuilt compressor. Sorry :(
4. If the thermostat clicks and the compressor turns on and runs it should warm up and the evaporator should get cold. If not you probably need a new or rebuilt compressor. Sorry :(
ALTERNATE quick way to just check the compressor only: Unplug compressor from machine (see picture on right below) and plug it into wall outlet with SHORT, HEAVY extension cord. If the evaporator (the coils inside of machine) gets cold your compressor is good. If not it is probably bad. Sorry :(
Hope this was helpful,
fdg123

I use powerstrips on my machine's so I can turn the compressor off while I fix or fill the machine's.Will this hurt the compressor or anything else,using them?

any machine with a compressor in it as that can restrict the current that the compressor can pull when running and especially when starting. Why do you think you need to turn the compressor off at all unless you're replacing a bad fan motor? There's nothing wrong with one running while the door is open or while you're repairing any other unrelated part of the machine. Newer machines do have a relay that turns the compressor off when the door is opened and then waits for a minute or two after the doors is closed before turning the compressor back on, but that is to allow any moisture on the evaporator to run off before the unit restarts. This is an efficiency measure to help the manufacturers get their machines Energy Star rated and for nothing else.

Thank you for the info.I will disconnect the powerstrips.Could that possibly cause frosting inside the machine.I just replaced the condenser with one from a machine I have at home I use for parts.It gets cold,but is frosting.If I plug the condenser strait into an outlet,would that tell me the t-stat may be bad,or I have other problems?
Thanks for being there.Greatly appreciated!

Thank you for the info.I will disconnect the powerstrips.Could that possibly cause frosting inside the machine.I just replaced the condenser with one from a machine I have at home I use for parts.It gets cold,but is frosting.If I plug the condenser strait into an outlet,would that tell me the t-stat may be bad,or I have other problems?
Thanks for being there.Greatly appreciated!

usually a sign of low freon or an air leak into the cabinet. If the unit never turns off, even when the thermostat is turned off, then you have a bad thermostat and this could cause it to ice up but will also eventually freeze your products. Otherwise the thermostat is probably okay.

I noticed today that the plug at the outlet was getting hot,Only when the compressor is plugged in and running.When I unplugged the compressor,the plug would only get warm like normal.
The T-stat does turn the compressor on and off.If a compressor is low on Freon,does that mean it has a leak or is that a normal thing to lose Freon when sitting idle outside for over a year? Whenever I had to move a machine,I would let it sit for 24 hours to let the Freon settle down,never had a problem.When I put the compressor in two days ago,I forgot to do that.Is it possible it may stop icing if I let it sit for the 24 hours and then try it again?
On a different machine,coins drop thru to the coin return shute,won't accept them when putting them in,light inside coin mech is not on,three motors on the left work,but only manually,five motors right of the three on the left won't work,even manually.
We can't figure out what the problem is.including someone who's done this for 20 years.He said he never saw anything like that before.
Sorry to take up so much of your time,but none of my machine's are making any money right now.After today,I tried everything me and a friend of mine in the business knows.We're out of idea's.Vandalism is fairly high where I have motor issue.It started doing it after the last vandalism which was at the bill acceptor area.No bill acceptor in this machine.They destroyed two of them.
Thanks a lot for your time.

draw by the compressor (due to poor air flow through the condenser or a compressor ready to fail) or a poor connection at the power outlet or dirty contacts on the power plug. If you move your machines upright as they should be moved then you don't need to let them stand idle for any time period - you can just plug them in. If you lay them down to move them then you should let them sit for at least a day to allow all the oil in the system to drain back down to the compressor. Low freon can happen over a long period of time just due to any kind of tiny leak at a joint that you would never find. It could also have just developed a leak from you moving and installing in. Generally on 95% of the machines I recharge they don't have any kind of meaningful leak and they then hold a new charge for a long time. If it's recharged and leaks down again within 6 months or less then that leak can be easily found. The longer it goes beyond 6 months the harder it becomes to find any leak. In those cases we have to inject UV dye into the system and then charge and install the unit. At the next low freon event there should then be detectable UV dye to point out where the leak is.

Machines that sit idle for a long time tend to lose gas. A machine that's operating will not lose it as fast because the machine is always cold and a leak won't show up for awhile as the cold cabinet can mitigate some of the effects of low freon.

The machine that won't take money could have a bad selection switch harness on the door now that it's been vandalized or maybe just a wire that came off one of the selection switches. You should tell me what model of machine it is and if it's single price, as it sounds like. If it was sprayed with salt water then that can eat at and short out the selection switches and the sold out lights. What exact damage do you have?

I'm sure today that the outlet needs repair.The plug goes in and comes out very easy.Not tight at all.Will let maintenance know about it tomorrow.Then see if that makes a difference.I will also clean the prongs on the plug.Also,the compressor I put in is a Dixie-Narco.Not the same as the one I took out,but the numbers on both were the same,115/60.I was told they are ok to use in Vendo machine's.My machine's are older Vendo Pepsi machine's with the rounded front,Will get the model number tomorrow,and yes,they are single price.No idea how old the compressor is that I put in really is.The rubber around the tubing is missing in some place's.Pretty well chewed up.Probably isn't worth saving,huh? I pulled the compressor forward and put my hand on it and it was very hot,also.I do not have the compressor plugged at the moment.Don't want to start a fire,but people can still buy warm soda if the want it.Have sign on machine.
The machine that won't work:
The only damage was around the bill acceptor area.Had to straighten the metal in that area out a bit.No other damage than that.It didn't seem they got inside of it at all,but,from prying on the bill acceptor like they had to do and smashing it into tons of piece's,maybe the harness did get messed up.What about a coin relay going bad? Would that cause this problem? I took it out and put it in another machine and it did not work,so I took the good one from the other machine and put it in the vandalized machine,still had same problem.Took the good one back to the machine I took it out of and it worked fine.I have someone getting me a new coin relay,anyway.
I took a multimeter and checked for current.All the motors read 3 to 4 amps,and the contact's behind the selection button's read 4 amps,so,it seems current is getting through.That was without the coin relay on it.
Puzzling,isn't it?

The machine where the coins fall thru and the three motors to the left work manually and five motor's to the right don't,is a Dixie-Narco V475.

because the evaporators are different sizes and the shroud over the top won't fit. This incorrect evaporator is probably why you are icing up - there's not enough airflow through the evaporator to prevent it from icing. Keep Vendo units in Vendo machines and DN units in DN machines. Once you get the outlet fixed and the correct cooling unit in the machine then you'll probably be okay.

Your other machine isn't a DN machine if it's a model V475, it's a Vendo. Because you're having trouble keeping the models of your machines straight, you need to know that the credit relays in DN and Vendo machines are different and not interchangeable. If that's really the issue in your vandalized machine then you must use the correct relay. To tell them apart you need to pull one and turn it over to see the pins on it. A DN relay has pins in the center row, a Vendo does not.

On the non-working machine you should remove the motor cover and inspect all the motor switches. They are double switches with short and long switch arms. When a motor is in it's proper home position the short switch arm will be laying in a notch of the motor's plastic timing cam and the long arm will be on the high side of the cam, not in a notch. If you find one motor with both switch arms in the cam notch then that will cause the vend circuit to be open, as could both switch arms being on the high side of the cam (not in the notch). Both switch arms on the high side usually means that the column is jammed, though it could also be a dead motor. If all your motors are properly at home then try manually vending each selection by lifting the short arm out of the notch to start a single vend. Lift it an release it quickly or you might get two vends. If the motors all work and they all stop in the home position then your vending problem (open vend circuit) is probably somewhere in your door.

Been getting bad advice from this guy here in Tucson.I ordered a relay for the non working machine to see if that helps.All motor's are in correct position,but still only the three on the left work manually,not the five to the right.nothing is jammed.
Do not have the compressor plugged in.Will take it out today.
Do have any recommendation's as to where to get a compressor for the vendo machine at a good price.Have no money coming in now.also,can you bench test a compressor without having it in the machine?
Can these R12 compressor's be converted to R134?I plugged the compressor into a different outlet and it still frosted up and got warm.

Vendo because the relay doesn't have anything to do with individual columns. If you'll give me the model and serial number off the side of the door or from the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet just below the delivery chute then I can look over a wiring diagram for you. Better yet, if you know that you have rotors underneath each column then you have a modern single price Vendo and I'll know which model you have. I can then forward a manual to you and give you some idea of where to look for the problem.

I can send you (or you can come to Phoenix to pick up) a good used cooling unit for $199 if you need it. You could also bring it up to Phoenix for me to check the charge in it for you and see if it's working okay. Remember though, that you need a Dixie Narco unit designed for the depth of your cabinet (2 or 3 cans deep) for a DN machine and a Vendo unit for a Vendo machine. You can always bench test one when it's out of the machine by simply plugging it's cord into the wall or into a short extension cord.

You can't put R134a into an R12 compressor and vice versa because the oils used in those compressors aren't compatible with the foreign gases. The only gas that can go on top of either of those is R401a which is what I use.

What days and times are you there that you could check the compressor? I'm retired,I can make it just about anytime when my wife has off work,usually week days,so I can use her car.What's your address in Phoenix? I'd like to bring the one that didn't work,that I took out,and the one that is frosting up for you to check out.Does any kind of guarantee come with the compressor for $199?
The model number on the machine that doesn't work is a:V475,serial # okf 027677,and yes,it is a single price machine.If you mean by rotors,the long ,half cupped metal piece that goes from the motor to the back of the machine that the soda drops into when the stack falls,it has those on each column.Not sure what you mean by rotor's.I also have the model and serial # for the frosting machine if you need it. I brought the frosting compressor home Saturday.I'm going to plug it in here and see what happens.
I would like to thank you again for all your time in trying to help me with these problems.I've had these machine's for three and a half years and never had a problem I couldn't figure out with a little common sense and trial and error.This is the first time I've been totally stumped.

Just wondering if you're working on my problem since I haven't heard anything for awhile?

logged into the site that I can't tell that there are new posts.

I can meet you at my shop in the early evening or on a weekend. My address is 3104 W. Thomas Rd. Suite 304, Phoenix, AZ 85017. A good used cooling unit will have a warranty of 30 days. If I put a new compressor on one or sell you a new unit then the warranty is 1 year. Yes the rotors are the rotating parts in the columns that hold the cans before they are vended.

Glad to see you back.Can you give me any idea how much it will cost to have the two compressor's checked,or to add Freon to the one frosting.Maybe the one that stopped cooling just needs a part or/and Freon.
Got the compressor working in the other machine.Seems fine now.I never checked to see how warm compressor's normally got till now.I checked it on other machine's.This one feels the same as the other's I checked.They do get fairly warm.
When I answered the question why I was using power strips,I forgot to mention I was using power surge protector's to protect my machine's from power surge's.I took them out on your recommendation.
But,actually,since that one is working for now,I need to concentrate on the machine that has the motor problem and try to get that up and running if possible,and take care of the compressor's after that.So,at least I will have two machine's working for me,and,the motor problem machine is the only machine in that complex,so,no one can buy soda now.I'm sure they are not happy.Have you come up with any idea's?

Freon is $18.50 and a line tap is $9. You will probably need to leave them with me so I can check them out thoroughly.

I went to the machine that wasn't working to take parts off I wanted to keep cause I was going to take it out and put a machine I have at home in there,but,I gave a last try by replacing the motor of the third motor on the left that worked manually and now they all work.Suspect the relay(if that'a what it is)on the bottom of the motor must have gone bad,not suppling current to the other five motor's to the rightThat's my guess,anyway.
Compressor-A friend of mine in the business has a friend who had a working compressor for the machine I need one for,for sale for $125,so I bought it and will put it in tomorrow.Now I can get that one up and running,too.
Your time and effort truly has been appreciated,and I want to thank you so much for all your effort in trying to help me with my machine issue's.Maybe we can do business in the future.I will definitely keep you in mind if I need anything.Thanks again.

The machine that wasn't working.Four selsections don't work when the stack drops and you put money in it.You can hear a slight movement when you press the selection button,but no soda drops.After that happens,the two switches are in together in the same notch.I put money in again,and it vends a can.Then when putting money in again,the money keeps coming to the return shoot.I can then keep pressing that selection and keep getting a soda as long as I want to until I press a selection that is working properly,then that will stop and the machine goes back to normal.It also delivers two cans instead of one like it's suppose to and sometimes just one.I tried changing motors,but have same issue.The motors not working right are NOT all in a row.Same with the ones that do work properly,Not all in a row or beside each other.Rotors seem to be in proper position.
These work properly from left to right facing motors:
3,4,6 and 8
Improperly left to right
1,2,5,7
How do you get the switches out that the selection buttons push against on the side of the door?
Also,are my 475's univendor's?
I know,here I am again!

this machine is a Vendo then your top button is for the far right #1 column with each button below it going to columns 2 through 8 from right to left. It sounds to me like you have bad motors and/or bad motor switches. Someone needs to look at this machine to repair it as there are just too many possible issues that are very hard to explain. You can bring it up to me for repair or you need to find someone there to fix it.

A guy has a DN compressor for sale for $25.00.He says it is frosting and doesn't want to put any more money in it.He says the compressor part itself is all but brand new.I am thinking of buying it for the compressor part and having it put on a vendo compressor unit I have here that doesn't cool at all and see if it works.The compressor unit I want to put it on had no issues other than it wouldn't cool at all.I would use it for a spare compressor.How much would you charge to transfer the newer compressor to the Vendo unit? I don't want to make two trips up there,like almost 500 miles for that.Wondering if you could do it while I wait sometime? If you want,you can keep the compressor that doesn't work and the DN unit.Maybe we could do some kind of trade plus money I would pay.Trade or not,either way,I want to put the newer compressor on the Vendo unit.Should fit,right?
Hope you can get back to me right away before this guy sells it.It does get very cold.
I would like to throw some money your way for all the help you've been trying to give me.Evenings or weeks ends work fine for me.

bell housings from one unit to another. You don't really know the condition of the one you're buying and it might not be compatible with the gas and oil that's in the compressor on your existing unit. That's just too risky for the possible cost savings. That unit for sale should just be repaired and then used in the machine it's designed for. These aren't mix and match parts. If you want a good cooling unit then you need to pay for a good unit. There's also no value at all in a dead cooling unit let alone a unit with no bell housing on it.

I saw in another post you made,that if frosting is occurring and the T-stat is not working,the soda will freeze.What will happen if it is frosting,but the T-stat does work? Will anything still freeze or will the frosting thaw each time the compressor stops running? Just curious.

the evaporator is usually caused by low freon but can also be caused by bad valves in the compressor or an large air leak in the cabinet. The freezing of cans is only caused by a stuck thermostat that never turns the compressor off.

What has my curiosity,is if the T-stat works and there is frosting,does it ruin anything to let it run,or can you run compressor's that way?

Once the evaporator begins to develop ice across the top of the fins then you'll need to defrost it by turning if off for a while. One thing you do need to do is learn where the zero point of your thermostat is by turning it off and marking where zero is. From that point you should only set the thermostat to 3 1/2 for it to properly cool. Any higher than that can freeze your cans.

Thank you very much for your help and advice.